hi everybody thank you so much forjoining us for our program today whichwe hope um you will find veryinformative uh my name is VivianSchiller I’m vice president andexecutive director of Aspen digital andum our session today is very timely lookeverybody uh that is on this uh webinarright now is laser focused on uh thelast day of voting as I like to call itnot election day because the electionsare happening right now but the last dayof voting and that is only 8 days awaybut the close of voting um and thedecision from newsorganizations uh to call elections um isonly one piece of the Pu puzzle the daysand weeks that follow uh next week aremaybe even more important we saw thisplay out in 2022 we certainly thinkthere’s a good chance we’re going to seethis play out in a big way this year aswell it is in those weeks when votes arecounted certified and potentiallychallenged with continuing threats toelection officials and campaignsbuilding up teams of lawyers topotentially contest results in courtit’s really important right now tounderstand exactly the process thattakes place between election day andInauguration Day in the past that hasn’treally been something most people havehad to focus on it’s played out behindthe scenes but those days are gone intoday’s webinar we’re going to talkabout the role that election officialsthe courts state legislators electorsCongress and the media play in ensuringthe appropriate the person that won themost electoral votes is the person whohas their hand on the Bible oninauguration day we have five amazingpanelists with us here today um I’d liketo welcome Katie harbath Katie who manyof you know probably has spent 10 yearsleading the public policy team atFacebook now meta where she ran the workon global elections before foundinganchor change in 2021 we are thrilledthat Katie is now senior advisor to usat Aspen digital for our Ai andelections initiative I’d also like towelcome Nicole Schneiderman Nicole is atechnology policy strategist at protectdemocracy and an expert on Techtechnology and elections policy Nicoleand Katie are going to give us a shortpresentation about the promised fivemoments you need to know and then we’regoing to bring on our full panel for uma conversation and to take yourquestions as well so Nicole and Katieover to you great thank you so muchVivian and thank you everyone forjoining us today so Nicole and I do wantto walk you through five of thesemoments and set the stage for you um alittle bit um and we’ve got some slideshere that we’ll be able to will be ableto show you and I think the first thingis just that um the informationenvironment has changed quite a bit umsince we since we last had an electionum according to the bipartisan policyCenter there have been over 9,000 billsintroduced in the states and 900 ofthose have have passed um around theadministration ofElections moreover we are also seeingthat Congress passed an update to theElectoral count Reform Act in 2022 andone of those major dates in there thatNicole will talk about is December 11thwhich is when the states have to issuewhat’s called a certificate ofascertainment and is a major Milestonedate that we will be looking at it andtalking a bit moreabout thirdly we are also seeingum uh sorry I gotta make sure I get theslides there we go technology it alwaysworks um county level officials in manyBattleground states are already tryingto block the certification of ballots inmany different places none havesucceeded yet but this is a concern thatthat we have going forward and somethingthat could slow down this process ofcertification and finally there is theconcern around violence and electoralviolence during this period according toa public affairs Council survey recentlyfour out of 10 Americans think therewill be violence no matter who wins withnearly 49% expecting it if Trump losesand so this is is a major component thatwe’re looking at not only what couldhappen at polling places but harassmentof election officials and poll workersand others who are going to be a bigpart of this process but let me turn itover to Nicole to actually walk usthrough these five majormoments thanks Katie so I’m going totouch upon the five key dates that wewant to make sure if you don’t takeanything else away from thisconversation please do try to rememberthese five dates and we’re going tostart off with one that is hopefullyfamiliar to folks that is the one andonly November 5th coming to um all of usvery soon this is election day andelection day marks the last day whenpeople can vote in person and typicallywhile this varies across the states it’salso the last date by when mailinballots can be postmarked and thenreturned outside of voting thoughelection day marks a really criticalmoment as it kicks off a series of stepsby which ballots are first counted thenthey are canvased and ultimately theresults are certified first at thecounty level and then ultimately at thestate level one thing to keep in mind isthat the timeline for this process canvary quite a bit from state to state butwe do anticipate that first week and ahalf after election day is going to be acritical period because that is theduration when ballot tabulation will beconcentrated a couple things to keep inmind as Katie already mentioned we’retop of mind for us is the threats thatare facing some of these periods andwanted to call out a few so a theme thatI will be sharing over the course ofreviewing these dates is to think aboutthe threats and harass harassments thatis facing people and processes andplaces that are core to electionAdministration in the context of ballottabulation we’re really thinking aboutour election officials as well as ourpoll workers and ballot tabulation sitesone thing also to keep in mind is thisperiod right after election day is goingto be high risk for confusion andpotential misinformation as we areawaiting the results particularly of thepresidential election so there could bethe potential for red or blue mirages aswell as the potential conflicting callsby media outlets and finally we may seewe do anticipate seeing claims ofelection fraud that could be resultingfrom confusion regarding the counting ofprovisional ballots the curing of mailand ballots or other key electionAdministration processes nextslide Katie already previewed this allimportant date that is new for all of usthis year so as Katie mentioned in 2022Congress passed the Electoral accountReform Act which was meant to shore upthe process counting electoral votesDecember 11th is a new deadline this isthe first cycle where we have thisdeadline in place by when states mustissue their certificates ofascertainment appointing their electoralslates so it’s really important to keepin mind this is a new deadline for allof us we have seen a trend since 2020where County officials are attempting todelay or refuse to certify electionresults and so with that in mind wewanted to call out the week prior toDecember 11th as potentially a high-riskperiod where we may see againattempts by either County or stateofficials to refuse to certify electionresults I do want to call out and I havea feeling we’re going to be digging intothis as a team later there aremechanisms in place to be able toresolve refusals to certify resultsjudicial proceedings that will be ableto ensure that these happen in a timelymanner nextslide on December 17th we’ve got theconvening of the Electoral College soone fun fact is that the ElectoralCollege actually convenes on astate-by-state basisso the electors meet in their respectiveStates usually at a location that isdesignated under state law typicallythis is state capitals so we again wantto think about some of the risk facingthis point in the election processthinking of our electors as well as ourstate capitals as potentially uh folksand places that will receive threats andharassment as well as potentialcoercion nextslide next up we have a date that isfamiliar to many of us after what we alllived in 2021 and this is January 6 soon January 3rd Congress the new Congresswill be officially sworn in and onJanuary 6th The Joint session ofCongress convenes and this is whenCongress meets to count and certifyelectoral votes again I think we alllearned the hard way from 2021 that thisis another Milestone that is high riskwith a potential for threats or violencecertainly targeting members of Congressas well as the capital we also wanted tohighlight that they may be confusionaround congress’s role as well as therole of the Vice President in countingelectoral votes last there is thepotential for either parliamentaryaction or in action by particularcongressmen that is used to attempt tointerfere with Congress being able tosuccessfully certify the electoral votenextslide and last but certainly not leastthere is inauguration January 20th 2025and one thing we wanted to make surefolks take away from this is that theprocess of electing and transferring ofpower to a new president and vicepresident- elect is not complete untilInauguration Day specifically the publicswearing in of our President and VicePresident elect at noon on the NationalMall and again in terms of risk that weanticipate this point in the electioncalendar facing there is certainly therisk for protests threats or harassmentfacing those who are participating inthe ceremony itself as well as thepotential for violence and just to addin a new twist uh we have seen that theweather has been pretty crazy of lateand we did want to flag there is thepotential for even weather impact andthe ability to successfully swear inpublicly our President and VicePresident elect nextslide so that was a lot to throw at youand we want to keep that in mind we puttogether this calendar that hopefullyhelps to illuminate what these five keydates on the election calendar arebetween now and inauguration day we’vealso highlighted in a friendly red whatwe believe to be the highest riskperiods facing the remainder of electionAdministration one thing that I want tomake sure to emphasize that if you don’ttake anything else away from thisconversation I really hope that all ofus who are working to ensure that theremainder of the cycle is administeredin a free and fair manner take to heartthat we’ve got to see this thing all theway through our job is not done untilJanuary 20th2025 thank you so with that Vivian we’llkick it up back over to you all rightfantastic okay so now we’re all expertson the five moments and why they matterand with that we’re going to bring onour full panel um so Nicole and Katieyou’re staying with us I hope uh but letme also introduce um G ramachadran sheis the director of Elections andsecurity at the Brennan Center’selection and government program and anexpert on issues including electionsecurity election Administration andcombating election disinformation NatePCY is the mcache professor of law atStanford law school he is one of themost widely cited legal scholars in thefield of election law and for a verygood reason as you will see and finallyKim Wyman who was previously theRepublican Secretary of State for thestate of Washington she is also servedsince then as senior election securityadviser at the cyber security andinfrastructure Security Agency otherwiseknown as sisa and is currently a seniorfellow at the bipartisan poly Centerpolicy Center all right so I’m going toum I’m going to ask the panel a bunch ofquestions but for those of you that arewatching um we will come to yourquestions later you should see um a Q&Aum uh tool on the bottom of your screenand you can answer your questions thereand we will get to those a little bitlater but you can drop them in anytimenow all right Kim I’m going to startwith you so you have been in the shoesliterally you wore the shoes of a stateelection official so put us in the uhtell us what officials in you know whatyou would have been doing at this stageand um to prepare for these dates if youwere a secretary of state what are youmost worried about right now well rightnow election officials across thecountry are focusing on making sure thatpeople can vote early that mailin andabsentee ballots can be received andprocessed that voters that are eligiblehave the opportunity to exercise theirright to vote and so that’s what they’redoing and since we are in an activevoting period with early voting andabsentee and mailin voting we also areseeing possibly mistakes that are madeit might be that a voter receives thewrong ballot style and they’re missingthe the right legislative district thatthey should be voting on orCongressional race so those types of oferrors that come up are being dealt withand the nice thing about having such along early voting period is thatelection officials have a lot of time tobe able to correct those errors beforethe polls close on on Election Day anduh I think what what really is uh thefocus of most election officials acrossthe country really is the Safety andSecurity of not only those officialsrunning the election but voters who aretrying to participate the voter whowants to drop off their ballot at aDropbox or wants to go into an earlyvoting Center and uh we certainly havestarted to see some activity that wouldindicate we might have some uh you knowpotential violence or or people intrying to intimidate voters and so Ithink it’s a heightened awareness andsecurity of that but realize thatelection officials have spent the lastfour years preparing for this momentthey’re ready election officials at thestate level are communicating withelection officials at the local levelwho actually conduct the election andthey’re ready and uh and we’re gonnawe’re going to see how it all turns outon uh uh you know December I don’t knowsomething whatever it’s gonna be umJanuary 20th um at least at L um so Kimjust one follow-up question so one thingI think that was caused a lot ofconsternation when in in the in the as aresults were coming in four years ago umwhen there was particularly so much ummailin voting because we were in Peakpandemic at the time it’s differentstates just to have different rulesabout when they can count those earlyvotes which results in this red or blueMirage so just say a word about thatabsolutely I I think I think there isthis myth that has come out of the 2020election that we used to know electionnight who won and I want to be clearwe’ve never known who won the electionon Election night because electionofficials spend the days which we’regoing to talk about after election doingall of the canvasing and certificationand we have a handful of States who havea postmark cut off like Washington statefor mailin ballots and as long as theyare received by election officials intime to certify the election thoseballots can be counted as long as thatelection postmark is on or beforeelection day and so that’s one thingthat will delay election results justbecause of the ballots that are being uhreturned during uh the Wednesday andThursday and Friday of election week inparticular and then the second kind ofelement to that is that some states likePennsylvania have laws on the bookswhere they cannot begin pre-processingwhat election officials callpre-processing of ballots beforeelection day and that things likechecking the signature on the envelopeto make sure it matches the voter so allof these things take time and um youknow you’re going to see results comingin that week after election uh that arevalid votes cast by eligible voters thatare still needing to be added to theaccount right so so certainly in thecase of Pennsylvania which is such acrucial State uh this year uh we willnot there’s there’s no way if they can’teven start processing those ballots tillthe polls close it’s going to be a delaytill we know what’s really going onthere given the high level of mailinvoting um Nate I’m going to I’m going toturn it to you so uh talk to us aboutwhere the greatest risks are and help usunderstand how real these risks are forexample if the state legislators decideto certify results for political reasonsin either direction that differ fromwhat the public perceives rightly orwrongly what mechanisms exists toaddress those discrepancies in a shareand ensure a fair process right uh letme let me start by trying to calmeveryone down a little bit which is thatI you know in all likelihood right thatthe voters are going to determine thiselection there are processes in place todeal with controversies the electionofficials in the Battleground stateshave been um red team in preparing forthis election for months if not yearsand so that while we all live in theshadow of January 6th and we see that asthis kind of defining moment in terms ofthe degradation of norms againstpolitical violence um most elections arenot razor razor thin and even though thepolls show it uh right now uh there’sthe possibility that we you know couldknow uh a Victor relatively early thatbeing said we should all be prepared forthe likelihood given the what the pollssay that we won’t know for for many daysand that there is always the chance oflitigation or um other kinds of issuesand so so I just want to start there nowthe scenario that you paint of statestate legislator sending slates ofelectors to um um Congress is one thatwas contemplated by the Electoral countReform Act and that is one of the thingsthat they tried to sort of put to theside as as not a legitimate uh processso the Constitution says each stateshall in a manner determined by thelegislature thereof appoint a number ofelectors and so the the legate legis dohave a veryimportant uh role to play but theElectoral count Reform Act says that anychanges uh in the laws with respect toappointing electors have to be um donebefore election day and so at leastunder the now the new federal law thegovernor is actually in a very importantposition uh because the governor or thechief executive of the state that is umin charge with CER delivering what’sknown as the certificate ofascertainment that must be done onDecember 11th sub to judicial reviewover the following 6 days and so theecra the Electoral count Reform Act wasspecifically contemplating your scenariouh where the state legislators can’tjust simply like overturn an electionnow having said all that of course youknow ultimately Congress is the bodythat adjudicates um electoralcontroversies if there are any um TheElectoral count Reform Act makes clearthat the vice president’s role isministerial so that um the that uh KLAHarris would not be no one would expecther as people somehow expected MikePence to overturn election results butyou need 20% of the US HouseRepresentatives in the US Senate to uhsort of Lodge an objection with respectto any of the Electoral slate so so theEC we are in a much better positiontoday in terms of federal law clarifyingwhat are the kind of worst casescenarios of of the type that you depictso that’s that’s with respect to thatparticular one but did I don’t know ifyou wanted me to talk about that I wantto just dig a layer layer deeper hereand and I’m going to I I take yourcomments to heart and I’ve heard you saybefore that there’s this it’s it’s allgoing to work out and the person who getwho actually earned the most electoralvotes properly will be in the whitehouse but I just wanted even ineverything you described help meunderstand why if I if I have apoliticized uh slate in a state if Ihave a like-minded Governor or chiefexecutive of that state and I have acongress 20% doesn’t seem like aterribly High bar these days help meunderstand why those three hurdles couldnot easily be met in certain States wellfirst of all we we need to look at whothese people actually are this time uhand so I don’t want to like put to finda point on it but but if one if thescenario that people are often pointingto is the idea that a republicangovernor in a state will deliver acertificate of ascertainment Contra thevotes that were cast in that state thatis very unlikely in um of the sevenBattleground states that people identifyonly Nevada and Georgia have the um haveRepublican Governors now it could go inthe other direction right it could be asituation where you could have aDemocratic governor that would be um youknow just delivering a slate for KLAHarris and and and the the situationthat would lead to that would be onewhere you know there is chaos or thereis litigation and there’s there’s anargument that the um that the electionwasn’t fair but each one of the stateshas rules about what the what thegovernors can do right and there’s aprocess in each state to determine whoum who has won the elections there’scertifications that happen at the locallevel that go up to the state level andso yeah there there there’s always achance that whether it’s at Congress orin the states that there there could beultrav virus kind of uh actions by thethese officials but as best as it canthe legal context is constraining thatpossibility for them to act sort oftotally off um off the The Rails hereand and so uh there there is just aprocess in place now look Ju Just to tobacktrack one of the things that savedus in the 2020 election was that inorder for the election result to bechanged more than one state had to beflipped right so that that that the theum heterogeneity of the electionconspiracies that were brought intocourt sort of looked like throwingspaghetti at the wall to see what stickstuck because uh and so the courts couldeasily dismiss them if we are in asituation where which is like Bushversus Gore where you’ve got one stateand is one type of issue let’s say maaleballots or provisional ballots then weare in a a much more fragile situationthan we were in in 2020 and I don’t seeuh sort of the parties relenting andconceding um to whatever the SupremeCourt says as they did 24 years ago andso that that is the nightmare scenariobut I think that we are way you know faraway from that right now it’s very hardto predict that that’s where the worldthat we’re going to be in but from yourlips Nate from your lips um um Gary Iwant to turn to you a a lot of you knowa lot of this is about public perceptionyes there are safeguards there are lawsthere are courts uh There Are Rules allthat is great but people are going tofeel feel what they’re going to want tofeel irrespective of the uh the facts soI want to just talk a little bit aboutthat with you for a minute first of allyou know we talked about Katie you knowor or or Kim referenced and and and bothof them the sort of houseon days whereyou know we went to sleep on as if itwas any of as if there were ever houseondays on you know the the last day votingon Election Day and we knew who wasgoing to be the president because weheard news organizations call the racistnow now help everybody here that’swatching today understand what does itmean when a news organization calls arace what is that based on and also dowe imagine a scenario or I guess I’m I’mhypothesizing that I can imagine ascenario whereby different um newsorganizations might call the racesdifferently even pulling from the samepreliminarydata thank you so much for that questionum so really uh you know on Electionnight or maybe a day later or two dayslater um when a news organization callsa state for one of the candidates forpresident or calls a congressional racefor a candidate for congress right theHouse of Representatives might be uh thecontrol of that chamber might be quiteclose this year when that happens theyare predicting what the official resultsare going to be based on uh acombination of the unofficial resultsthat the election officials haveprovided to the public often posted ontheir website or uploaded on an electionresults reporting page uh they’repredicting based on those publiclyrevealed results and certain otherinformation they have about thedemographics and the politicalaffiliations and things like that of umyou know the different uh precincts andthe different counties in the state sothat’s why it might just take one newsorganization a lot longer to predict onestate than another even if a lot of theresults are in obviously how close therace looks like it is is going to be ayou know factor that determines howquickly they’re going to call it buteven when they do call it it’s stilljust a prediction because those are onlythe unofficial results there’s otherthings that need to happen in thatpost-election period uh for instance uhin the states like secretary Wymanmentioned that uh permit ballots to becounted if they’re received butpostmarked postmarked by election daybut received D after those things needto be counted um many states have anotice and cure option where if there’ssomething wrong with somebody’s mailballot like the signature doesn’t seemlike it matches the signature on filethere’s a few days in which that votercan come in and fix the problem and alot of times it does really fix aninnocent problem like a two spousesswitched envelopes with each other um orsomebody has been getting older andtheir you know signature is gettingshaky and a little messy um they cancome in and say that that’s me um andresign that envelope so all those thingshave to happen um provisional ballotshave to be adjudicated as to whether theperson was an eligible voter or not allthat has to happen reconciliation has tohappen that’s a process where theelection officials um at somethingthat’s usually called the canvas um willtake a look at how many people actuallygot credit for voting so we checked offthat their mail ballot was received orwe checked off that they came to thepolling place and they voted that sortof thing let’s compare that to thenumber of votes we actually got rightand the number of ballots we actuallygot and make sure that it matches upoccasionally you’ll have a tiny littlediscrepancy like someone checks in atthe polling place their kid has anemergency at school and they run out andthey never vote right so you’re like oneoff uh but sometimes people do find youknow wait we forgot to count that wholebox of ballots and there’s 500 ballotsin there you got to then scan those ofcourse and fix that so all of that hasto happen before uh the canvas iscompleted and you have the officialresults and then those get certifiedtypically at the countylevel yeah so the that thanks for layingthat out and I think it’s you made avery important Point um at the top andthen gave ample evidence for it which isnews organizations have no no electoralAuthority they are using their you knowum their their best guest a lot of itbased on results but you know to to callelections you know we see a lot ofcaution and we may remember four yearsago uh but they do have but sorry butthey do those calls actually affect thenational psyche in many ways which canalso affect the way people respond andwhether they’re going to protest andwhether there’s going to be violence sofor instance four years ago we rememberthat um Fox I think they were the firstto call Arizona which was a a swingstate uh for Biden much to theconsternation of the Trump Camp um itseems possible more than possible thatthis year we may see um more politicizedcalling of States uh maybe not based onyou know fullinformation what is do you have concernsabout sort of what chaos that mightthrow into the mix if you have one newsorganization calling it for uh onekanate and another for theother um I do have concerns if thathappens although I’m not too concernedabout the major news outlets um havingsort of huge discrepancies in the callsthey make they typically don’t um whatyou pointed to from four years ago whereuh Fox News maybe called Arizona a fewdays sooner than some of the other Dnews deaths were able to that’s notreally a case of one news organizationsays it went to Trump and one says itwent to it it’s just a difference insort of their level of confidence um andtheir statistical confidence in makingthat prediction um so I don’tparticularly have any reason to believethat the major news outlets are going toyou know really conflict with each otherin this way and one thing I’ll not isthat we actually had a candidateclaiming victory in 2020 far beforethere was any real reason to uh makethat prediction and the major newsoutlets uh reported well on that issuein my opinion that was a real success uhwhere they did not just say okay I guessthat candidate has some information wedon’t have um they treated it as if asit it was still undecided and thatreally helped I think with the nationalpsyche I do think there’s a concern thatsome of these uh more uh kind of verypoliticized and not mainstream newsoutlets might um you know might makesome suspicious calls uh but I think uhyeah so that that’s really goes to thenature of people getting their mediafrom different sources now and that sortof thing uh that is an increased concernbut I’m not too worried about the majornewsoutlets good I love I love all I lovethe confidence on this uh panel that’sfantastic Nicole I’m going to turn toyou um we’re going to continue on thetheme of sort of Public publicperception um what are in the event andthere and in in all likelihood therewill be all kinds of narratives that areflying around in the days after theelections about what’s happening what’snot happening um who’s winning all kindsofshenanigans what in your views are thebest strategies for um for for for forfor media for government for civilsociety to counter these false Narnarratives to try to interrupt any kindof you know disruptions um well eitherin at on on Election the last day ofElections uh entirely when there mightbe some rumors about things that arehappening at at voting places and alsopost the close ofvoting thank you for that question Ithink you know we anticipate and alreadyseeing narratives related tomisinformation emerging right like thisis happening certainly the narrativesaround non-citizen voting is probablythe poster child of this right now andwe think that this is laying thefoundation for narratives to continue toemerge in the wake of Election Day so acouple things that are top of mine Ithink one encouraging every American toknow who your local election official isif you had to pick someone who is yourauthoritative goto source for what ishappening on the ground in yourcommunity it should be your localelection official and I commend ourelection official Community they aregoing over and Beyond to to make surethat people have accurate upto-dateinformation virtually in real time aboutexactly how voting is going right now weare seeing this across the countryparticularly folks um like for examplein Maricopa County in Arizona I’mwatching Stephen rtor give real timeupdates on how pre-processing is alreadygoing of mail and ballot so I commendour election official community and ifwe had to pick an information Source Iwould say you’re local electionofficials in addition to that I thinkthat one thing that all of us were partof trying to protect the fairness ofthis election can do is continue to shedlight on exactly what electionAdministration entails after electionday so I will I’ll I’ll throw myself alittle bit under the bus here until Istarted working at protect democracy Iwas not well-versed on the intricaciesthat are involved in electionAdministration after election day I wasabsolutely one of those people that allright media called the race I can maybego to bed for the first time in severalweeks and become a human being again Iwould really encourage though all of ofus who are part of this community tryingto protect the 2024 election continuingto equip people with information aboutexactly what this process entails Ithink it’s fair for people to getconfused because some of these processesare they are really complicated as someof the answers have already highlightedtoday and so anything that we can do toensure that people have an understandingthat look if there are delays that’sokay that is part of the process ifthere are legal challenges that’s okaythat is part of the process like exactlywhat Professor PCY shared there areguard rails in place that are going toensure that the election is ministeredfreely and fairly and whatever we can doto equip the American people withinformation of exactly what this processentails I think we will be better servedacross theboard thank you Nicole um Katie I’mgoing to turn to you I want to talkabout the role of the tech companiesfrom from from whence you came umobviously so much of what we know orwhat we think we know comes via thefeeds and our social media platforms orour m Ming services or what have you uhwe have seen a lot of change in the lastfour years towards content moderationpolicy sort of a pulling back um from aa what was a a fairly in my mindappropriately aggressive stance uhparticularly as the 2020 results werebeing challenged it’s a quite differentpicture today what do you see what whatis happening with the major Platforms interms of uh safeguarding the spread offalse information and what more do youthink needs to be done yeah it’s a it’sa really great question and I thinkfirst and foremost I want to make clearthat there are teams at these companiescontinuing to do this work um being atrust and safety worker is not an easytask in in any stretch of theimagination and so while there have beena lot of headlines about pulling back itdoesn’t mean that they’re doing nothingthere’s there’s quite a bit that they’reactually they are doing and I thinkfirst and foremost that is going to bethey are I’m already seeing some of themdoing this reminding people win ctionday is that they can early vote how tofind that information about where whenand and how to vote um I think you knowone challenge that we’re also going tosee is a lot of these companies this istheir first major election that they’rehaving to actually go through this I’mthinking of your Tik toks your Twitchesum platforms like that X is just atotally different platform today thanwhat it was in 2020 and so we know thatthey’ve done a lot to be prepared but wedon’t yet know how they’ll makedecisions in Real Time moments whilethey are actually happening I thinkanother area where we will and want tosee more from tech companies is whenthere is those threats and harassmentsto election officials particularly ifit’s giving personal information aboutthem around taking quick action aroundmany of those types of things but wehave seen due to particularly Republicanpressure we are seeing companies beingless likely to just take down content umthey might reduce the reach of it butyou have again they they’re stuckbetween this rock and a hard place ofoften times it’s folks on the the leftwho want them to do more and there’sfolks on the right who want them to doless and with an election as close asthis one is we’re seeing a lot of themkind of not taking as much aggressiveaction as they did before and it’sunclear how that will play out here inthis postelection time frame when we’regoing to have periods there’s there’sthe process of it and we know what theprocess is and how that should go outbut there will be confusion about wewon’t know who the winner is we may notknow all of the facts right away way andso that is the time period when not onlythe tech companies will be in adifficult position about what to doaround some of this content but I thinkall of us as consumers of informationneed to realize we have agency in thistoo of making sure we understand that asinformation is coming in of evenreverifying it getting multiple sourcesum understanding that there will be someof this confusion that that is happeningand then the tech companies are probablygoing to have to make some toughdecisions about what it is that theythey allow up or not particular clearlyum if it’s coming directly from acandidate yeah it’ be interesting to seethis year whether I mean there wasaggressive action when uh against Trumpin 2020 um it’s hard to imagine thatthat will play out in the same way in inthe event that that he makes claimswithout evidence I think the big thingto remember about 2020 what ultimatelyled the platforms to take him off isviolence was happening in the momentyeah so it wasn’t enough that he wasmaking claims games that he won that wasnot getting him taken off even in 2020it was when people started storming thecapital and what he was saying and howhe was encouraging them and I think thatif we get to that situation again uh theplatforms may be under pressure for himto be kicked off but he’s got his ownplatform now he’s got truth social hedoes most of his posting there and thatstill gets picked up in many otherplaces and so I don’t know how muchimpact even platforming him by the otherplatforms might have yeah um Nate I’mgoing to come back to you talk about umthere’s sometimes I hear uh you knowasking for a recount or triggers for arecount are a normal part of thedemocratic process I think for somethose those uh imply that there’ssomething a miss so talk about a littlebit about recounts and how those workand also what are thelegal somewhat related question whatremedies do ele election officials haveof in the face of threats of violence umor other forms of aggression in terms ofbeing able to carry out their dutiesthough uh a recount as you said is anormal part of the process and we shouldexpect that there will be some recountsin this election just as there are inall elections whether whether it’s for apresident uh uh it’s too soon to tellbut uh given that we’re runningthousands of Elections uh this yearthere will be some that are so closethat they’ll lead to um recounts and sothe process is after the certificationof the election um you you ask for arecount to um or in in the process ofsort of a controversy you ask for arecount some in some states it requiresuh there’s an automatic recount if themargin is 0.5% or sometimes it specifiescertain number of votes uh and then youum and then you know there’s a specificprocess uh in the law uh for contestingthe election uh and then once therecounts is is concluded then you knowpeople could go into court as we saw sayin Florida in the 2000 election um tosay well you know the the recount thatthe counted votes for somehow didn’treflect um what was the true uh totalsfor each candidate um and your and yoursecond question was say that again thesecond question was uh protection legalprotections for election violence yeahyeah so I mean it there are specificrules s related to uh say conduct inpolling places and and sometimesheightened penalties for violenceagainst election officials um and butthis is you know a law enforcementproblem and each one of the localauthorities has relationships with lawenforcement um that have already beensolidified in uh the in coming up tothis election whether it’s uh to preventagainst voter intimidation and violencein polling places or to make sure thatthe counting facilities and the sort ofcentral facilities where the electionofficials are housed uh as they’relooking at the ballots that those are uhprotected and so uh it’s um you knowit’s of course the nightmare scenariobut they are uh you know trying to workwith local law enforcement to to do thatthe doj has limited Authority departmentof justice has limited Authority um umif things get out of control but there’sthe possibility that they could be uhdrawn into this but for the most part uhyou’re working with the local policelocal law enforcement yeah great thanksKim let me come back to you um and I’mstarting to weave in um questions umfrom the audience you can continue todrop your questions in the in the Q&Atool at the bottom of your screen uh twoquestions for you Kim what whatgenerally um are states doing toreassure the public what what whattransparency measures measures are theytaking anything new this year thathasn’t been in the case before and andyou know to make the the voters feellike their votes are being countand that they will the the results willbe the will of thepeople I’m not sure that much of this isnew in some states it might be new but Ithink transparency is really one of thepillars of a a solid election and thatelection officials really Embracebecause they want people to believe thatthe processes are accurately reflectingthe way eligible voters cast theirballots and those results reflect thatso things like uh ballot tracking uhsystems that uh states have put intoplace not all yet but I think most wherea voter can put their ballot back intothe USPS or into a ballot Dropbox andthen they can actually track that ballotright up until the moment that theirsignature has been verified and and theballot has been accepted for tabulationuh and I know that uh you know thatthat’s really the the point of showingshowing voters that see your ballot didgo through the process and it is goingto be counted the way you cast it uhthen also having observation you know itsounds really simple but this is a basictenant of Elections is having observersin polling places I realize in the lastfour years that’s been politicized a bitbut that’s been something that’s beenavailable to political parties fordecades in Most states if not all umhaving teams of bipartisan uh workers sothe pole workers when you walk into thatearly voting Center or into that pollingplace are representing Democrats andRepublicans and uh there’s differentways that states do that but but all ofthese measur meur are for transparencyto the public to show that we’re notgoing back and you know opening thisBallot Box in the dark of night and andadding in or taking out ballots uh allof the the umreconciliation uh I’m trying to rememberwho was it which speaker before mementioned it but the reconciliation ofballots is another piece of that alsoobservable so all of those elements ofan election are are observable andtransparent there are some things likethe code that the tabulation system Mayused to tabulate is not uh not uh sharedwith the public and that’s a securitymeasure uh to make sure that we don’thave somebody getting in there andtrying to hack into it but I I think Igot your your question great thanks Kimum Gary I’m gonna turn to you we’regetting quite a few questions about umthe role of AI in these elections um sotalk to us a little bit about whereAI uh AI uh enabled created content iswhat we’re talking about here um hasshown up and where it’s not shown up umso I think it has not shown up in sortof massive quantities the way I thinksome people predicted but one thing Iwant to remind uh listeners of is thatuh you know after the 2016 election ittook a couple years for the public tofind out about attempts at interferencein the security of election systems umattempts touh and sometimes successful attempts toremove uh data copy data from voterregistration databases it took untilabout 2018 uh for the public to reallyhave any clue about that uh so it ispossible that we will find out in theyears to come that there was some kindof AI enabled uh Cyber attack on anelection office uh so uh one of thethings that we at the Brennan Centerhave warned about is that uh AIgenerated content might just be moresophisticated and convincing to anelection staffer uh so they might becomethe victim of a spear fishing attackwhere they accidentally give away theirpassword uh to their computer uh becausethey got really convinced uh by thatspear fishing attack um we won’t know ifthat happened uh for a while probablythe good news though is that uh the samekinds of things that election officialshave been doing over the past uh youknow 8 years really 12 years uh toprotect against uh Noni enabled cyberattacks those work for AI enabled cyberattacks so using multiactorauthentication reminding people thatthey all have to have differentusernames and passwords right doing allof that uh protects against that um andthis is one of the areas where havingour election system be so uhdecentralized and dispersed is reallyhelpful right there’s not like oneperson sitting at the Department ofHomeland Security who if they getSpearfish successfully suddenly ourelection falls apart and everything ishacked right all these machines are youknow distributed all over the countrythey’re not connected to the internet umso all that decentralization means thatyou know even if there is somesuccessful uh attack like that theimpact of it is going to be reallylimited the other thing we’ve seen isthat there have been some uh in recentweeks actually there have been some deepfakes of candidates so for instancethere is a uh deep fake video of uh vicepresidential candidate Tim Walls uh uhyou know sort of depicting him uhengaging in inappropriate behavior witha student it’s completely fake thisnever happened it is totally false uhthere has been some circulation of thatvideo there was also uh a uh appears tobe a manipulated video uh showing uhworkers in Pennsylvania ripping upballots that didn’t happen nobody didthat very quickly when electionofficials in Pennsylvania got wind ofthat they put out the truthfulinformation uh they pushed back on thatrumor to let the public know that thatis fake uh that video so we have seensome uh you know attempts like that uhhere and there uh and all that work thatsecretary Wyman was describing whereelection officials are being reallytransparent um really doing all thisactive uh proactive communication I Ibelieve Nicole mentioned some of this aswell um all of that is kind of uh uh isworking well I think in response tothose kinds of attacks thanks Gary Iwant to turn to you on this question toum Nate and I don’t know also if you canaddress sort of the nation state uhadversary element of this as well rightso I like uh Go’s response on thatbecause it was not limited to the normalway that we think of the effect of AI onelections since most of the time when wetalk about Ai and elections we thinkabout the disinformation problem and umuh limited to you know synthetic imageryand all that we there are hundreds ofthousands if not millions of examplesright now of uh Sy thetic imageryrelated to the election the fact that wethat it hasn’t um reached the the thelevel of virality that where we wouldsay all right this is a problem is Ithink what’s what’s significant and sothe mere fact that there is all thisstuff out there is never really themetric the question is whether it’shitting the right voters or hitting theright people um most of what we see withrespect to AI generated imagery rightnow is kind of like satirical you knowpictures of trump hugging cats and ducksand things like that and and those kindsof and it’s not really intended todeceive so much as it is to try to pusha narrative of in that case what youknow what was happening in Ohio and andor or something else um and so therethere is always the chance that therecould be an October surprise that thatcould reach a certain level of Vvirality but for the reasons that Katiewas talking about about the fracturingof the social media Universe there’sless reason to think that convinciblevoters will be um hit with persuadabledeep fakes in the next week and a halfthat will flip the election because it’snot as if this stuff happens in a vacuumwhere you don’t have counter speech oror or the kinds of responses that g wastalking about so so that’s the firstthing but I do like the the point aboutcyber attacks and it’s it’s sort of likethe Cyber attack issue is like we cancall that an AI issue or we can call ita cyber security issue whatever it is umyou’re always concerned about that andmaybe there are you know uh sort of lesssophisticated actors who now can takeadvantage of AI in order to uh launchcertain types of attacks um one thing Iwould emphasize that 100% of the ballotsin the Battleground States will be caston paper um and uh 98% of the ballotsNationwide will be so even so so thekind of whether it’s AI or other kindsof cyber attacks that then are directedat the actual ballot count castingprocess um I think will fail there arehowever um possibilities of soft Targetsin the kind of election Administrationecosystem and this ties into yourconcern about perceptions before whichis that something like the voting um theelection night reporting system which isbasically you know a system it’s Bas asystem of websites where uh precinctsare are reporting to State officials andup and down um you could easily seesomeone taking down a website trying tomess with numbers and then changingleading to change perceptions that willuh uh feed conspiracy theories and soyou know those are I think uh legitimateuh concerns but um you know I I I thinkthe experience with elections over thelast year is that people are becomingbetter at sussing out what’s falsethey’re becoming worse at determiningwhat’s true and for the kind oflong-term health of the Democracy thatis a a bigger danger but it’s not onethat I think will lead to deception interms of deep fakes in this electionit’s interesting what you’re saying withso much of the theme of what all of ourreally wonderful panelists have beensaying over the course of the last houris that is expressing confidence thatthe rightful winner willprevail but concern about the kind ofthe the noise in the system and thechaos that that that will can happenalong the way as we’re winding downtowards um the end of our we webinar Iwant to just revisit where we started uhI want to come back to those fivemoments and just touch on those againbecause I think we cannot talk aboutthese enough there’s just so much focuson Election night inauguration day andnow as of four years ago January 6 so umKatie I’m gonna I’m going to pull youback up and let’s just uh let’s just gothrough those Greatest Hits again MomentOne election night well I would even saynow through like and the week after theelection so there’s kind of a two weekperiod here that two and a halfish weekperiod of here that’ll be one of thefirst kind of moments of of the highestthreat period that we’re going to see uhmoment two is going to December 11th andthat’s that new deadline again when thestates have to issue that certificate ofof ascertainment um and then that weekbetween December 11th and December 17thwhen the state electors actually meet intheir state capitals to cast theirballots that’s just a heightened timeperiod where we could see protests getmobilized people showing up at statecapitals um potentially many January 6is you know in in many of those placesrather than just here in DC uh January 6is um the fourth date um that is whenCongress will actually convene and needsto count those ballots in addition tothe new Congress coming in on January3rd we need to remember too on December20th Congress runs out of money we alsoare likely looking at a very close houserace or house races that we may not evenknow who which party is going to berunning the House of Representativeswhen this comes so we need we we’re sofocused on the presidential I want toremind people there’s many down ballotraces that we also need to be very uhmuch paying attention to that couldimpact this process and then finally wedo have inauguration day and I would sayit would be the days leading up to andalso the days after because remember wedid have that big women’s March um theday after the inauguration in 2017 andso we are encouraging everybody to youneed to stay Nimble a little bit and seewhere things are are are happening butum it’s definitely not like after oncenoon on the 20th is done and they’vesworn in I you know keep an eye out onthings for a couple of days after yeahmany people that I talk to really arefocused on if you really it’s probablythe least the least sort of popularizebut that the the real critical date isthat December 17th date when the state’suh electors meet and choose theircandidates so December 17th everybodyand then maybe we get a little bit of aChristmas holiday in between we’llseeknow nobody I know is actually planningvery serious vacations for that time fora good good reason um and with that umwe are uh just about running out of timenow so I want to just um thank all ourwonderful panelists who are put in somuch important work and will be all overall of these issues from now throughJanuary 20th and Beyond um Katie harbathum Nicole Schneiderman Gary Ramadan KimWyman and Nate personally thank you somuch and thanks to all of you for yourattention and we’ll see you next time
The days and weeks following Election Day will be a critical time for the US.
With continuing threats to election officials and campaigns building up teams of lawyers to fight results in the courts, this webinar will cover the five key moments between November 5 and the Inauguration that election officials, the courts, state legislatures, the media, and ordinary Americans need to be prepared for.
Hear first-hand from the experts.
SPEAKERS
Katie Harbath CEO, Anchor Change Senior Advisor, Aspen Digital
Read about Katie Harbath
Katie Harbath is CEO of Anchor Change and senior advisor for Aspen Digital. A global leader at the intersection of policy, democracy, and technology, Katie’s been called an “election whisperer to the tech industry” by Foreign Policy Magazine. Her career spans political campaigns, civil society, and technology. Prior to Anchor Change, Katie spent ten years at Facebook, where she built and led global teams that managed elections and helped government and political figures use the social network to connect with their constituents.
Before Facebook, Katie held senior digital roles at the Republican National Committee, the National Republican Senatorial Committee, and the DCI Group, as well as multiple campaigns for office.
Nate Persily James B. McClatchy Professor of Law, Stanford Law School
Read about Nate Persily
Nate Persily is the James B. McClatchy Professor of Law at Stanford Law School, with appointments in the departments of Political Science, Communication, and Freeman Spogli Institute of International Studies. Prior to joining Stanford, Professor Persily taught at Columbia and the University of Pennsylvania Law School. His scholarship and legal practice focus on American election law or what is sometimes called the “law of democracy,” which addresses issues such as voting rights, political parties, campaign finance, redistricting, and election administration. He has served as a special master or court-appointed expert to craft congressional or legislative districting plans for Georgia, Maryland, Connecticut, New York, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, and New Hampshire. He also served as the Senior Research Director for the Presidential Commission on Election Administration. Professor Persily is coauthor of the leading election law casebook, The Law of Democracy (Foundation Press, 6th ed., 2020), and most recently, The Digitalist Papers: Artificial Intelligence and Democracy in America (2024, coedited with Condoleeza Rice, Eric Brynjolfsson, and Alex Pentland). His current work, for which he has been honored as a Guggenheim Fellow, Andrew Carnegie Fellow, and a Fellow at the Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences, examines the impact of changing technology on political communication, campaigns, and election administration. He is the founding co-director of the Stanford Cyber Policy Center and its Program on Democracy and the Internet and is a member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences.
Gowri Ramachandran Director of Elections and Security, Brennan Center for Justice
Read about Gowri Ramachandran
Gowri Ramachandran serves as Director of Elections and Security in the Brennan Center’s Elections & Government program. Her work focuses on election security, election administration, and combatting election disinformation.
Before joining the Brennan Center, she was professor of law at Southwestern Law School, in Los Angeles, California, where she taught courses in constitutional law, employment discrimination, critical race theory, and the Ninth Circuit Appellate Litigation Clinic. Her work was published in Election Law Journal, North Carolina Law Review, and Yale Law Journal online, among others. She served on the Ninth Circuit’s Fairness Committee, which considers racial, religious, gender, and other disparities in the administration of justice.
Ramachandran received her undergraduate degree in mathematics from Yale College and a master’s degree in statistics from Harvard University. While in law school, she served as editor-in-chief of the Yale Law Journal. After graduating from law school in 2003, Ramachandran served as law clerk to Judge Sidney R. Thomas of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit in Billings, Montana.
Nicole Schneidman is a Technology Policy Strategist at Protect Democracy working to combat anti-democratic applications and impacts of technology, including disinformation. Prior to Protect Democracy, Nicole was Head of Community Product Partnerships at Facebook where she led a team advocating for the needs of community leaders in the development of Facebook’s community product suite and related integrity policies with a focus on Facebook Groups. Nicole earned her JD/MBA from the University of Pennsylvania’s Law and Wharton School and her BA from Georgetown University.
Kim Wyman Former Secretary of State of Washington Senior Fellow, Bipartisan Policy Center
Read about Kim Wyman
Kim Wyman served as Washington’s 15th Secretary of State from 2013 to 2021 and is only the second Republican woman in state history to be elected to statewide office. Kim is President of ESI Consulting, a company specializing in election security and modernization, and she is a Senior Fellow at the Bipartisan Policy Center.
Secretary Wyman’s career in elections began in Thurston County, Washington where she successfully pioneered some of the country’s first vote-by-mail elections and helped lead the state’s transition to universal mail-in elections. She created the first state Elections Security Operations Center, successfully led the bipartisan development of the VoteWA system, and collaborated on many national election administration and cybersecurity initiatives including the Electronic Registration and Information Center (ERIC).
Respected for her leadership, Kim was appointed by Democratic President Joe Biden to serve as the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency’s Senior Election Security Advisor. She served in that capacity for 19 months before moving to the private sector.
Kim Wyman is a frequent panelist and speaker and has been featured in many interviews and reports, including Anderson Cooper, John King, Major Garrett, ABC News, CBS News, NBC News, NPR, Time, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, Politico, USA Today, and The Hill, among others.
MODERATOR
Vivian Schiller Vice President & Executive Director, Aspen Digital
Read about Vivian Schiller
Vivian Schiller joined the Aspen Institute in January 2020 as Executive Director of Aspen Digital, which empowers policymakers, civic organizations, companies, and the public to be responsible stewards of technology and media in the service of an informed, just, and equitable world.
A longtime executive at the intersection of journalism, media and technology, Schiller has held executive roles at some of the most respected media organizations in the world. Those include: President and CEO of NPR; Global Chair of News at Twitter; General Manager of NYTimes.com; Chief Digital Officer of NBC News; Chief of the Discovery Times Channel, a joint venture of The New York Times and Discovery Communications; and Head of CNN documentary and long form divisions. Documentaries and series produced under her auspices earned multiple honors, including three Peabody Awards, four Alfred I. DuPont-Columbia University Awards, and dozens of Emmys.
Schiller is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations; and a Director of the Scott Trust, which owns The Guardian.
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