The State of Product Equity: Navigating the Currents

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hi I am Natasha Weinstein uh pronoun sheher and I’m the head of the techaccountability Coalition all right soit’s now time for the main event and Ipersonally cannot wait uh since we beganplanning the product Equity Summit weknew we wanted TB to ground Us in thiswork uh TB is the director yes you yourname on a board in lightsalways TV is the director of productEquity atAdobe and is an accomplished productleader and strategist he has been at theForefront of delivering more usefulimpactful and Equitable experience forbillions of people globally and TB isjoined by the incredible force that isAntoinetteCarroll Antoinette is the founderpresident and CEO of creative reactionlab a nonprofit educating and deployingyouth to challenge racial and healthinequities impa ing black and latinxpopulations her founding belief issystems of Oppression inequality andinequity are by designed therefore theycan be redesigned please join me inwelcoming TB andAnette thank you thank you oh I can hearmyself great okay cool I just want tosay um this is my first time wearing adress andmy partner is like it’s gonna be kind ofcute I’m like ohno this so short story is uh I wassupposed to wear this to the Beyonceconcert but it came a day late so I’mlike I don’t know what to wear and I’mlike well why not during a productEquity thing ain’t nobody gonna judge mehere if not you’re a terribleperson all right so um I’ll start bysaying anet is my best friend so this iswe’re gonna invite you into our world sowe might bicker a little bit you know wemight go back for but it’s it’s it’sbeen love ever for I don’t know almost adecade now um and so uh I guess what wecan start is one for those who are AudioOnly Timothy bleens I’m a black man baldhead but also wearing the blackbillionaires cap because one day it’llhappen um with my ombre beard and my uhnew guc shirt because I didn’t haveanything to wear today um and then myrainbow just saidbe and then um you want to do your uhvisual Oh I thought you was Gonna Do MeBaby Oh no youself you’re gon beyourself all right oh hi my name is Anoncurl my pronounce is she her hers and Iam a fabulous African-American woman uhthat has usually strawberry Red andpurple hair but they ran out of the redDy so I had to do burgundy bear with mey’all um also Carl skin wearing acolorful Amazon drop dress just to letyou know uh with some beautiful pinkheels and some emerald green nailsbecause it is May month baby Emerald isthe birth show tour season tour seasonjustFYI we gonna just wait for Gemini seasony’all that’s where nobody care about noGemini seasonall right so before I jump in firstthing I want to do is it’s always goodto level set and so one of the mostimportant things is we’ve said we’veheard the phrase multiple times ofproduct equity and so I’m going to giveyou our as an adobe’s definition of itand I give it with the openness of useit abuse it take it it’s anyone’s to useand so product Equity from our lens is astate in which every person regardlessof human difference can access andharness the power of digital productswithout harm bias or limitation okay andthen last part is very important um andso when we talk about product equity andwhen I talk about it within thisconversation it’s going to be built offof that basis of that definition um andagain you’re free to use it expand on itreduce it however makes sense for youand your organization if you don’t haveone just set for one of the things withour team was we didn’t excuse me feellike we could do the work without firstdefining what the work is that we’redoing yeah and so our definition is alsoour vision so our vision is create aworld in which a person regardless ofhuman difference etc etcum so love the call out on Vision um andso also because you are a special humanbeing and most people don’t know thisabout you is your background and reallybeing one of the U Founders creators ofequity design as a field U which we haveanother person here uh Pierce who alsois a founder of this field um Pierce youhave like a very long name so I didn’twant to butcher itbut if I goad do it real quick go yeshereyes doctor okay we got the doctor on topof this yeah but I would love for you totell us what is the equity design fieldand sort of like what what is equitydesign like what does that mean so forfolks just to let you know first I wantto Define design and I bring this upbecause we talk about P product we talkabout Equity I mean not Equity but umdesign and make it seem like these aretwo different worlds and reality is thatthey are intersected but I know in theteex space they are essentially kind ofseparated in many ways and so when wetalk about design at my company we saydesign is the intent and impact behindan outcome when you hear the Simplicityof that definition it helps youunderstand that all the products thatyou all are creating are by Design rightand that also means that the productthat cause a lot of harm can beredesigned and so there’s a lot of uhindividuals that from Stanford D schoolfrom um different groups in Orlando likeall around the United States and alsoaround the globe that came togetheraround 2016 2017 and said you know whatwe have a lot of different Frameworksthat’s centered in design Justice that’scentered in inclusive design liberatorydesign equity center community designinstead of approaching this like a lotof fields do through this separation andsiloed approach why don’t we cometogether and collaboratively talk aboutabout how we can co-create a fieldtogether and so Equity design was bornout of that and Equity design is issimple but complex right it is literallylooking at how do we Design Systems thatin originality were designed to be veryoppressive in a more healing andliberatory way but particularly is ledby the folks that are most impacted bythese systems and so the idea thatproximity matters but I also like totell people because we hear the lot it’sokay baby answer the phone it’s sobut I like to also tell people that youknow even though in my work I talk aboutthe importance of that living expertiseand that proximity in doing this workthere’s also a reality of choice and Idon’t think we talk about that enoughthere’s an assumption that if I’m anAfrican-American woman by Nature I’mgoing to try to improve things forAfrican-American communities that doesnot always happen one skinn folk don’talwaysmean all right apply that to allidentities but I don’t just say that ina negative way I think there’s also apart a side that we don’t talk aboutwhich is the choice to not actuallycontinue to be ret traumatized by doingthis emotional work correct correct weneed to be very conscious that forinstance when I sit on stages like thisI made a choice to take on thatemotional toll and my therapist loves meforit therapy y’all y’ but and so there isan idea of choice and you know we talkabout choice for folks that are um moreuh have access to power and privilegeand how they show up and what we callDesign allies not just allies but designallies but there’s also a choice in thefolks that are being historically andcontemporarily oppressed if I am tryingto survive in my life and then you’retelling me that now I have to educateyou every time I come into aroom isn’t that just upholding thesystem that I’m trying to dismantle mhmand so I do believe that there is thethe importance of choice and I believeChoice depends on every situation andevery context I may have made the choicesystemically but maybe today is not theday and I should not be penalizedbecause I choose that today is not thatday and so I just want to name thatwhile I talk about the importance ofproximity I also believe in The Power ofChoice aswellokay and thank you for comingyeah so um so like and I think this issuper important because one choice isimportant like ultimately we all choseto be here many ways and I think thereally tough part is also unconsideredthe fact that um we honestly werecognize that a lot of people that aredoing this work they’re not directorsand Senior directors and VPS in factthere’s very few of us most of us areic’s right you were potentially recentlyhigh or recently graduated and given arole but then not giving any support amI speaking to somebody I’m speaking tookay um so we know that this is superlike a struggle for us to have tonavigate this work and so you’re pushingagainst a system without the titlewithout the power but with all theconviction which is super tough so I’mI’m curious like from you especiallylike you’ve been doing this work forover a decade 20 years almost somethinglike that long that long time we’re notg do that a long time so like one how doyou want remain resilient in thisbecause like you we have to literallymake a choice every day and we’rechoosing to be traumatized or rettraumatized or choosing to be stressedout or whatever so what does that looklike to be resilient this and I caveatthis by saying I’ve talked to a lot ofpeople across the industry um as of nowthe consistent number of how long peoplestay in this space is about two yearsand then they leave um I’ve consistentlyseen two years be the limit before it’slike okay I got to do something elseit’s for ative reasons so like how doyou sustain because some folks have beenin it four plus years but like how doyousustain um so I’m G name a couple ofthings because I’m a very honest andvulnerable person I want to name that myanswer is through the lens of a very PRprivileged position I one have apositionality of President CEO I toohave the positionality of also beingoutside of a lot of the organizationsthat I’m working with to redesignso I don’t have to deal with thepolitics of it I can fire a client whenjust like they can fire me and I havefire clients I have told a client in ameeting you are exhibiting tenants ofwhite supremacy what we gonna do aboutthis okay anybody got your whitesupremacy Bingocards it today true it’s definitelygonna show up um you know and but I alsorecognize that there is a privilege thatI hold through that when folksautomatically put you on a pedestalwhether you feel you have earned it ornot they automatically pay attention towhat you’re saying because I’m one ofthe co-creators of a new field peopleautomatically hear inventor and say ohwell maybe I need to listen to what thisperson is talking about and I want toname I’m doing a Sidetrack a bit but youknow I do this I appreciate earliertalking about the accountability aroundthe EDI field and I would also arguethat there has been a lack of so when Ijust gave the example that I have youknow me and others can be put on apedestal because we created a fieldyou know there’s also a reality that inthe EDI space we’ve been put on thepedestal because folks essentially sawsomething in news didn’t know what to doabout and say hey we going let’s justcreate roles yeah that also means thatan individual that read a chapter in abook and I’m not hating on it but theycan show up and say I’m going to do anunconscious bias training and thenthat’s it so there is this kind of umthis tension of trying to be resilientin a space that I would argue the spaceneeds to be redesigneditself before founding gve reaction labI worked at a diverse inclusionorganization and I will say that weupheld a lot of the white supremacytenants like everybody else even myorganization there’s because the realityis we’re all seep in it so even in myorganization there’s moments whereperfectionism may show up where qualityover quality may show up because it’seasier to go back to status quo but wethen have to have folks in leadershipquote unquote and in my role I am inthat leadership to say this ain’tworking we got to create a change thereso I will say to transparently prior tofound and create reaction lb my mylongest tenure at a company was a yearand a half I didn’t make it to two yearsCH I just barely did it man look I’mproud of you I was look then we likecelebrate we may have drinks when youmade it P so we was like Heynow but and the reason being was becauseI knew that I was not one to wear a maskI don’t don’t believe in it I I am okaywith whatever consequences come my waybecause of my authenticity that has ledto some people hating me that has led tosome people loving me the positive andthe negatives are the consequences andI’m okay with that right but I would saythe the be the ability to sustain inthis comes in multiple fold one havingfolks like Tim in my corner when I havehard times is important you have to havea community to help you through thisthere’s moments he’s struggled there’smoments I’ve struggled and for us to beable to call and just say this was some oh sorry mybad are there children oh we can curseoh great that’s gonna make so much morefun okay oh thank God huh my I got I gotalmost six year old twins I’m sorry thethe filter left a long time ago you saidsix almost 16 yes my baby’s almost 16 wenot g talk about thatokay but we support each other in thosetimes where we like am I tripping likebecause I earlier in my career therewere so many times when I was like am Ispeaking another language like am I notsaying what I think I’m saying and someof it was you know man spamming or nothearing me as africanamerican woman someof it was because I was too vocal or tooloud and I made people uncomfortable andI just learned over time that that’sjust who I am and I’m just not going tochange that part of me if myauthenticity makes you uncomfortableit’s different if I cause you harmversus if I make you uncomfortable thoseare two different things if I cause youharm call me out on it so we can workthrough that but if I’m making youuncomfortable let’s have a conversationon what actually is making youuncomfortable is it something that I amtruly doing it or is it something thatyou maybe have dealt with in your lifeand some of it may be a trauma responsethat we’re navigating together right umso it’s having a peer group but I wouldalso say talked about the import intoVision you also have to have your ownpersonal Vision on why you do this workyeah it is not this work you don’t getinto this work so you can have all theaccolades you do not get into this workso that you can get some good paycheckseven though Gucci decided to goGucci if anybody needs a lesson on youknow no we’re not gonna say out loud noton CL stre I’m just saying like I canhelp people when it comes to like youknow you know offers and you knownegotiation Inegotiate he has a goodnegotiator he’s aate make sure I don’tI’m not broke that’s true you want asoft life soft lifeamen what we talking about I don’t knowlet’s get back to no but I love Visionhold on the vision hold on the visionpiece the reason why I brought that upwas when George Floyd wasmurdered this was a time in my life thatit was I think at that point thetwo-year anniversary of my 14-year-oldbrother’smurder uh he was a victim of gunviolence killed by a friend in hisbedroom over an iPhone right so I wasdealing like literally it was May Juneso I was dealing with that it was also Iwant to say maybe the threeyearanniversary of my uncle’s death whichwas due tooverdose and also at the same time anorganization that I had contributed alot of time to probably a decade wasattacking meonline yep and so all of this washappening when George Floyd was murderedand me leading an organization like minethere was an expectation of me giving anopinion giving voicing a concern and ittook me weeks to finally say somethingbecause when I say I was drained I wasdrained like I barely could sleep atthat time and you can still find onlineI think I did it as an Instagram livethat I just kind of vocalized what I wasfeeling in that moment and you can tellin my face that I was just not having agood moment I was going through it butthe reason I’ve been able to sustain andall that and even in that moment able topick up in that moment I needed to wasbecause I’ve always told people thereason why I do this workers because inmy family particularly on mygrandmother’s side I haven’t had blackmen make it past the age of55 that is why I get up and do the workthat I do I am a mother of black boys Ihad still have because he’s still in mymemory a young brother right and youknow that was a that’s my why that’s whyI push through you know and that’s thenegative side the positive side is Iwant to create a legacy where my familyno longer just lives in memory you knowthat was that’s another reason of my whyso that Vision piece is important tomaintain in this work especially inmoments like this because in momentslike this they’re going to continuallyhappen because you’re challenging thestatus quo challenging the idea what isnormal or what is common and thereforeyou are always going to have moments ofbeing attacked in who you are as aperson and also with a feeli like thiswho you are professionally and so yougot to have that Vision to move forwardyeah and I love that because I mean youknow this like just over the past fewmonths I’ve had to discover my why umand it’s because like I I was doing thiswork when it felt like at a default likeyeah I understand it I know these I canhave these conversations I can thinkabout these Frameworks this makes senseto me and it was this realization oflike do I actually want to do this likedo I is this actually what I want to beknown for like because in many ways toput anything related to Dei your titleis the pigeon hole you right like andwe’ve I think we’ve all felted in manyways and so I really was like what am Idoing and I realized like I was thinkingabout other roles I want to do thingslike that and one of the things thatreally set out me is like like I justwant to change the way we build productslike that’s my simple why statement islike I just want to change the way webuild products and how that shows up whois it for all those other things thatcan be different it can shift dependingon the context but edit core is like arewe changing the way we do this as anindustry and ifso damn that’s good and if not we gotsome work to do um and it’s it’s beentough though and I think what you’resaying as well around like I actuallyI’ve started telling people more andmore especially in mentorship isconsequences of making these decisionsso like same thing I’ve had a lot ofconversations I’m like hey this is whoyou see this is who you get I show uplike this and just byy any place I go towork like this you know I I’ve gone to afuneral like well not like this it’s myfirst time wearing this but it’s kind ofliberating though I’m just you know Isee how see I see why people do it likeit’s good Breeze because it was hot Iwas likebreezeum but no but like I I think that likeI’ve gotten okay with the consequen ofit and consequen are goodserious live um no I think the soactually something that I want to talkabout thisconnected probably not um the thing Iwant to talk to about talk as well aboutas well is like so we talk about Visionaround like consequences and purpose andthings like that and something what I’venoticed is that um and this is not a digon any person or people in particularbut like I’ve noticed that some peoplein this work um and maybe it’s becausebecause like I have this livedexperience so now I believe I can do thework right or because I look like acertain thing I can do the work Y andI’m finding more and more that it thatjust that shapes my gears um and so I’mlearning more like I’m trying to buildthis language around being product Leversus being Equity lid right andproduct lid is I am going to do thingsthe way the system has built to do itlike how we know it’s the tried and truemethod I’m going to infuse Equity orinclusion excuse me pieces into itversus I am starting from a pace ofequity which is a place of people andthen the product is the lens in which Istart to see the work to be done rightand I felt more and more there’s astruggle for people to to likedisconnect that and understand like whatdoes it mean to be Equity LD and it kindof goes back to like being Equitydesigners like what does it mean umultimately I guess to center communityand like there’s a conversation aroundcommunity and stuff so like what does itmean to be Equity l and think aboutCommunity through that lens as wellyeah I’m going hit first on your firstpoint which wasn’t a point but it was umall my point for point oh honey that’scute that you think so um but um no Iwant to name when we when we do thiswork or we do any work we are all on ajourney but we don’t talk about in thisfield where we are on that Journey rightit’s like there’s a fear of transparencyof saying I am new in this and I amlearning while doing because the realityis we’re all learning while doingexisted yeah there’s no equable world ithas never happened so we are literallytrying to create a world that doesn’texist I tell people all the time by n byNature working in equity you are afuturist yeah because you are trying todesign something that has never beenconstructed that requires a lot ofimagination to get thereright um but of course with design and Iwould even argue like product extensionthat you have to still do it rightbecause we can’t stop at Imagination wecan’t stop at div Vision you actuallygot to dosomething what does the doing look likeum first I would name because we’ve alsowe’ve defined Equity design we’vedesigned product Equity we we’ve defineddesign but have we actually definedequity in this space so to be equitycenter first you got to know what theheck it meansand I I hate to say it like that but youhave no idea how many spaces I’ve beenin and folks are talking about saythey’re doing Equity but they’reactually doing diversity yeah or theysay they’re trying to work towardsEquity but in reality they’re trying towork towardsequality and so you know Equity Iusually use two definitions there’s onethat you know for through Ferguson mycompany policy link a lot of us usewhich is when um when hold on whenoutcomes are not predictable predictablebased on someone’s identityso when you talk about racial Equity iswhen outcomes are not predictable basedon someone’s race right ability statusEquity when outcomes are not predictablebased on someone’s ability or disabilityright um but I like to simplify itsometimes of saying Equity is givingpeople what they need when they needit now I’m G say that again Equity isgiving people what they need when theyneed it so I need y’all to think aboutwhere were you a yearagoand it’s okaybab me and you both she said with ajob like but no where were you a yearago and what did you need a year agowhere were you last week what did youneed last week what were you need amonth fromnow I’m giving this example because thereality is that our needs change everymoment and that’s the real conversationwe’re not having is that Equity isn’t acheck box it isn’t is something that weaccomplish it is something that has tocontinually be designed and sustainedthroughout life and it’s so much so thatI work my my main organization becauseyou know she got businesses I gotbusinesses but but my main organizationcreate reaction La is a nonprofit andyou know we’ve been having conversationson if our deeper work around Equityshould be under a for-profit benefitCorporation model and I want to have itwhere it’s doubled down so it’s abenefit Corporation through Delaware solegally and also be certified be Courtcertified so there’s like multiplelayers of having to make sure that weare not creating harm the reason why Ibrought we’ve been talking about this isbecause nonprofits the main ethos of itis that nonprofit’s role is to no longerbe inbusiness it is to work ourselves out ofbusiness but I just gave you thedefinition of equity if we workourselves out of business with Equitythat mean we’re going to get back to anINE equable world because there won’t bea sustainability of it and so beingEquity centered is one being verytruthful with yourself that one it ismessy is is complex and it is ongoingevery moment every decision everyopportunity is an opportunity tointegrate Equity now Equity of course issystemic right so it doesn’t mean it’sjust your responsibility it is ourCollective responsibility to do this andit has to happen through private andpublic partnership that has to happen Itend to tell people it’s like threeactors I tend to talk about the most theentrepreneurs the entrepreneurs and theorganizers so you have the entrepreneursthat are outside of the system that arecreating new businesses opportunitiesthrough an equable lens you have theentrepreneurs which I would argue ismajority of the folks in this space thatare within organizations that are tryingto redesign from within you theagitators from within but then we havethe organizers that are the ones that Iwould argue are holding both of themaccountablewe need all three of those to actuallyget to this Equity centered approach inworld but we are too busy arguingamongstourselves well they on the outside theydon’t know what it’s like working inthisCorporation oh they just sellingthemselves out forcapitalism well they they just read abook on organizing they don’t know whatthey doing they just go out and walk inthestreet we too busyarguing that and I hate to do it us andthem because I don’t think it is I don’tit’s not that clean cut clean cut butwe’re surprised when folks that areupholding more normal oress oppressivesystem seem to be further along becausethey having conversations like what wedoing you good with that oh yeah I’mgood with that let’s keep itmoving the greatest tool ever createdwas to divide andconquer and we literally have dividedourselves because it’s what we’velearned yeah so Equity centered alsomeans that’re not doing the work aloneand knowing that that doesn’t mean you100% agree on everything because we havedifferent experiences different livebackgrounds it’s not agreement is notneeded for Equity yeah it iscollaboration and co-creation that’sneeded because those differences isgoing to get us to a space that honestlyyou wouldn’t have got Al loone if youjust brought it only your livingexpertise so to that and this actuallyconnects to I know area around Communitywe were talking about anyway um butCommunity plays an important role inthis right and so like for example whenI think about asking that question wedid you didn’t really answersome hold hold for a second did you justask me that question hold on y’all abouthold on excuse me so I’m about to haveto educate you on this stage so you saidI didn’t answer the question no youanswer part of the question no no nohold on about the community no no no thereason we’re almost done almost doneevery individual is a part of thecommunity so everything that everyperson does is Community Center theproblem is no the problem is is that wealways separate Community First aseveryone else true and we say that weneed to do work with Community as ifwe’re not already in community socommunities we have these moments attime my bad again we’re inviting youinto ourworld sometimes happens no okay let melet merepa R preneurs okay need to under haveto definitely understand the importanceof their place in community as well asthe broader Community which they’rehoping to support co-create with Etc I’mnot gonna say serve because we don’tserve we don’t serve does any everyoneunderstand that no no okay so to serve acommunity no he going to make you earnyour check today let’s go I’m notgetting paid it’s freeokay um so when we say when you sayserver community that means that you’react you’re thinking that you’re givingsomething Community is saying like Iknow what this community needs I’m goingto service this up to them that’s notTak into account their needs their wantstheir desires whatever and so it’susually done in such a way in whichpeople who are serving the communitynever actually are engaged with thecommunity in a meaningful way toactually understand the root cause rootneeds whatever I mean like there’s a wasit what’s the name of the uh whitesupremacy protected by uh designthinking that one what’s the name of theworkshop you made our Workshop uh howdesign thinking protects white supremacyyes Des think is a great example of thisbecause it ultimately is saying I’m GNAgo to this community I’m gonna have acouple of conversations go back into mycorner create things and then serve itto the community without actually sayingis this actually what you needed wasthis actually solving your problem ordid we just like take a couple of blurbsthrow it into a deck and then deal withwe want anyway and also expectinggratitude for it exact as wellabsolutely absolutely and it’s like wellwhy aren’t they happy about this wellbecause they a want it um okay so whenwe talk about when we talk aboutcommunity and co-creation and stuff Ithink the super important part of it isthe co-creation piece and so like I knowwith my team and with our or like a lotof what we talk about is we amplify thework we’re doing because we want the thepublic all of you all as well as thefolks who are going to be using usingthese tools um we want them to be ableto um ultimately tell us hey you screwedup or this is great or whatever rightlike we want to be able to have thatbidirectional dialogue and it’s actuallyreally tough especially through the lensof innovation which is you create in acorner you rush to market then youpresent on the stage and then peopleclap right that’s that’s hech today andso I wish I had a sign that goes nowclap rightit’s feel like I think a sort of finalquestion is like when we think aboutInnovation and it’s Crux Crux withequity which ultimately again you’resaying that Equity is innovation workthen how do we redefine Innovation sothat it actually better aligns withEquitable outputs as opposed to sort ofwhat we know today which is the you knowrush to market the you know all thethings you answering that I’m asking youthat I think you should answer whyshould I ask thatanswer let me answer it I because Iactually want to hear I have an answerand I’m going to give it you but I wantto hear your answer because I wouldargue a lot of folks in this room are invery similar position as yours trueinternally so my my answer she justturned to the moderatoris when you got itbaby no but I think especially with theaudience and where they’re coming fromyour perspective would be um reallyimportant from that internal and then Ithink I could come in with the externalyes we got to stop thaty’all no Honestly though I think so thethe toughest part actually um I think umI think you said it best actually waslike the fact that we are all IND deepmeans that we can’t have an opendialogue about what’s going on right andso there’s this question of trust thatcomes out of this a huge problem butjust generally speaking how ourcompanies are built it’s you know wehavewhat it I’m forgetting the things now umwe have the paternalism stuff we havethe we have all the issues around justlike rushing to a thing like we have allthese precepts of white supremacy thatfall into the work s virtually thank youum we have all these precepts of whitesupremacy that fall into the work thatlike what we Define as Innovation andwhat we never actually do is go to thecommunity and say is this actually goingto impact in a negative way or how doyou navigate this thing how do youengage with it how what do yourexpectations whatever and then say okaycool let’s work on this together andthen not just let’s work on thistogether but what is that reciprocalrelation relationship look like whereyou’re giving and receiving not justextracting right then also it’s the okaywe built a thing let’s go back to thecommunity and have more conversationsabout it like ultimately how are webuilding relationships with communitiesand then from there utilizing that tosay okay cool this is innovation becausewe just did something never existedbefore because we actually in partnerwith people who never have even talkedto before um and so it’s in my mind it’slike really about like understandingthere’s a really interesting birirrelationship that can be built out wherethey’re getting access to toolsresources people careers whatever and inreturn we’re also getting insights andunderstanding of how we can improve ourproducts to be more effective and moreInnovative you know it’s interesting umso we’ve worked with a lot of techcompanies honestly I’m pretty surealmost everyone here yeah a good amountof you all we’ve worked with some of thedepartments in your companiesand I remember there was one techcompany I’m not going to name them uhthat when we went through some of ourcurriculum how design think protectswhite supremacy and uh getting into themlike prototype and think through how tobuild in more equable products orprograms procedures whatever it may havebeen uh I remember there was oneindividual uh that was midway throughthe experience they kind of likevirtually raised their hand and we werelike yeah and they were like so I’vebeen reflecting on the tendance of whitesupremacy and and you know when itstarts you like here we go what wasit this go one or twoways either they gonna be like and thatmakes sense so it’s gonnabe so I don’t understand like you knowyou gotta know what’s gonna happen butactually this person said everythingthat you named is literally what we putas values at ourcompany I already company that is childinstantly knew it and they were like soI think it might be time for me to get anew job and we and we were like I meanwe ain’t got nothing to do with thatknow but I I a lot of these companiesare built through the lens of innovationfor the sense of harm andexploitation and when I think about butit’s covered in we’re changing the worldof course because I I think about likewhat there’s two big components of ofinnovation uh and equity centerInnovation I would say and and and Iwould say equ the community centerthere’s usually the two T’s there’s timeand Trustso when it comes to a lot oforganizations that’s engaging withCommunity they naturally are coming inwith a Time an agenda preset we’re goingto work on this for three months well Ihate to break it to you but you’re notgoing to build trust with a community inthree months and we talk about in a lotof equity and Community centered workthat you have to build at the speed oftrust that also means that the time isnot going to meet the agenda that youhave set and so that’s actually why whenwe were talking about the organizationwe’re going to build which is going tobe called reedu Center for redesigningEquity education but reedu is going tobe a edtech company and we want to makesure it’s a benefit Corporation becauseorganizations like pentagonia when youlook at what they do they actually takethe time to do the work right theyactually are okay with you returningtheirproduct like let’s be honest how manyorganizations are like yeah you canreturn it and and we’re fine with thatno they encourage it because theyunderstand the importance of that tea oftrust and also understand that as theybuild more trust with you they also getmore time with you and there’s a valuein that so I would say if we’re going tochange Innovation kind I know we’reshort on time if we’re going to changethe Innovative approaches in our in ourwork we need to honestly be askingourselves is this a real constraint oftime or is it one that my boss has saidand they answer is more likely your bosssaid it and their boss’s boss has saidit and you know then it becomes thiswell can it ever be changed hence why Isaid he needed to answer first and notme because I went to create my own whenI realized that it wasn’t going tochange the way I needed some orgs willsome orgs will not and you just have tomake the choice on what you’re willingto do internally and what you’re notwilling to do the organization that wasattacking me I was involved with themfor 10 years and then decided to leaveright I made the choice I did myinternal work and then I went on to domy external work and I’m very happy withthat decision I don’t hate on what theydo I’m very proud of the folks that staybehind and continue to do that workbecause we need those internal agitatorsbut those tease of trust and time issomething that is so important but wedevalue and don’t talk about enough inthisworkso on that note I’ll wrap us up so wecan shift over to some Q&A but I’ll justsay I think like the trust is a reallygood place to end on because I thinkthere’s Trust with Community but alsotrust within ourselves that we need tobuild and so um I’m hoping that overtime we can do more building of trustwhere we can share more openly um I’malways like those who know me know meI’m G tell you I’m just gonna tell thetruth it’s good or bad I’m gonna tellyou the truth but um I did think that’ssuper important especially as a subtheme for this event is how do we buildtrust with each other and how do we getour companies especially to build trustwithin and outside with communities yepthank you

The Tech Accountability Coalition, part of Aspen Digital, hosted a reception to kick off the inaugural Product Equity Summit on Tuesday, April 30, in Washington, DC.

The gathering featured a one-on-one conversation between Timothy “TB” Bardlavens, Director of Product Equity at Adobe, and Antionette D. Carroll, Founder & CEO of Creative Reaction Lab, on where we are with Product Equity today and what it will take to drive systemic change.

Speakers

Timothy “TB” Bardlavens
Director of Product Equity, Adobe

Read about Timothy

Timothy has dedicated his career to dismantling systemic barriers, building and scaling teams, and launching innovative digital products for companies like Microsoft, Meta, and Adobe. His extensive experience and deep understanding of the intersection between technology, design, and social impact make him an exceptional guide in our collective journey toward creating a more equitable and inclusive future.

Antionette D. Carroll
Founder and CEO, Creative Reaction Lab

Read about Antoinette

Antionette is the Founder, President and CEO of Creative Reaction Lab, a nonprofit educating and deploying youth to challenge racial and health inequities impacting Black and Latinx populations. Within this role, Antionette has pioneered an award-winning form of creative problem solving called Equity-Centered Community Design (named a Fast Company World Changing Idea Finalist) and a new leadership model called Redesigner for Justice.